recently I had the pleasure of meeting
Glanville Phu a legendary instructor and
artist his teaching had a significant
impact on my life and career
mr. ville Phu and I had a conversation
and I got to ask him some of the
questions you guys submitted here it is
[Music]
welcome to proko my name is Stan and we
have a very very special guest one of my
heroes one of the people that I really
look up to mister Glanville boo so thank
you so much for letting me come to your
studio yeah you're welcome okay first of
all before we start into some of the
questions that people submitted I want
to tell you how much of an honor it is
to be here because you were one of the
first instructors that I was exposed to
as a kid um yeah in my animation class
in high school as a freshman one of the
first videos that my animation teacher
played was one of your VHS tapes back
int 13 years ago yeah so that that
that's one of the reasons I really
started to like animation and then
eventually got into fine art so I have
you to thank for no thank you thank you
yes thank you that's something I hear a
lot of the people redo a lot of people
in the industry I was the first
instructor yeah you probably were one of
the only ones making videos at the time
right yeah they were filming that yeah
so it was long time yeah most people
know me as like principal yourself
through the animation but I didn't I
didn't start an animation till I was 40
I'm a painter but I look at the stuff
that I do I'm a painter first it all
begins with basic fundamentals so
whether it's animation painting
sculpture it's all the basics but when
when did you start drawing or when did
you just get into art
well the first of all my father is a
Sunday painter Sunday painter no you
paint he was an engineer professional
okay I know yeah and he would paint on
weekends
and take classes right and and so I
specifically remember and I must have
been literally five years old he was at
an easel working on a painting and I was
on the floor
tracing stuff out of his books in doing
that I started doing that and I remember
something I must I think was around
Christmastime and so what is today well
my background is finish I'm a Finn from
Finn oh okay and we live in Finland I
didn't learn English until I started
school so uh but we had reindeer at the
Christmas time know what I'm talking
about it was I think was upstate New
York somewhere and what I did is I did I
did a tracing of a sort of a horse using
simple spherical form just see what I
teach now and so then I put a couple of
these together and then but drew the two
more behind and they made a whole soul
and then I traced a thing from a Sears
catalogue of us sleigh with Santa Claus
well I had ended up the teacher had me
taking and going all over the school
putting up these Santa Claus and the
reindeer so I think really that my
career started at that point so that was
like keyguard
oh wow first grade and I was taking and
drawing all this stuff and that
literally I've never stopped but so
that's how I started and my father still
was painting I had a grandmother who
took and painted drew and so we used to
have private classes at my home so
as a teenager I was doing a lot of
painting like 14 15 mmm so you were
around when your grandmother and your
whole family well they lived with us
also my father's father was trained in
Finland as a sculptor and a stonemason
okay so you got oh so they were just
little artisan background and then after
high school did you go to art school or
and after well a ball I was in a heart
while I was in my MA wife originally
started the first classes I took figure
drawing were at ssin ARDS well I think
why I was in the 10th grade in high
school that's what I did yeah and so in
fact I had numerous teachers that had
been trained from 1800 so I'm sort of in
a way my background is really I'm sort
of a bridge from a whole different
generation of people in the process of
I've taken and is when I went like say
okay started in high school I started
going to sonars then my way family moved
to Wessel Santa's from sort of East Los
Angeles and so at that point they
started taking Saturday classes at Art
Center and this was how old we owe
16700 while still really young are 16 Oh
anyway when I took and graduate I had a
when I graduated from high school I had
a full scholarship Laura Turner and I
wasn't ready to work that hard how do
you mean oh I I didn't even finish that
it was that summer semester I went in
the Navy and I went the Navy for a
couple years travel follow and then when
I came back I went back to art center
and so at that point I was I went there
I started teaching when I was a student
altogether I probably spent 18 years
there at that point I had people who
were students of mine I wanted to get
into animation and I had actually
already had quite a few students of mine
who had gone to work in animation and
Disney for instance and this one friend
kept saying well why don't you give
Disney a call I said finally I did and
they hired me but I didn't know anything
about animation so literally the day
that they hired me I walked out bought a
book on me so that I would know what
they were talking about I didn't know
anything about it okay
anyway you made it work huh you made it
work well no this is this really sort of
like the key to I'm not teaching
anything different now that I did what I
would say I had my own school before I
knew it because everything is based on
the fundamental right drawing drawing
for animation is no different than just
like no different than the
Michelangelo's the refu when I travel
when Disney sent me around the world
teaching I taught exactly the same thing
same thing I teach exactly today what my
drawing man what the finding that is is
a working in the industries then going
back to the animation what they were
asking me to do was to take and exactly
what I had already been doing designing
paintings but one of the things that I
did on my own work primarily I don't use
models I do almost everything for
imagination okay well that's one of the
questions so you can just check that off
of a list you know when I was in your
workshop that was one of the things that
I was so impressed by is you were able
to create a realistic figure drawing
without a model there and I was just I
was kind of blown away by that because
you were doing details and lighting
details that and there was nothing in
front of you
well you know whatever it comes from is
well I kept that's what I and of course
in the animation so we don't have models
we have model sheets they tell you what
something looks like now if you take a
look at all of the masters whether I
don't care who you look at going back
well Sistine Chapel or the RAF fields
everything was started from imagination
they would do their rough they would do
their thumbnails they would develop
things and then once they got to a
certain point if they needed to then
understand the detail then they would
get modelled or whatever but it was
everything started with the organization
storyboard right okay good thumbnail
yeah yeah and so that was the that's how
that's how they worked and today when
people talk about the Academy a lot most
of the Academy stuff it's taking a model
and copying it and that's my classes
that's what first thing I say they never
copy the mom we don't copy at them all
you analyze the model if you're
constantly analyzing them all and you
think of a the drawing is a study then
you are every time you draw you are
studying and you're learning right so
you're not copying so you think of what
my approach is basic it's not my
approach it's really the traditional
approach is you taking a first kept
gesture you construct a form then you
start building on that construction and
go from there
and that's really that's really
traditional drawing and I could show in
your class I show examples from all over
different periods keep doing exactly the
same thing the people drawing Academy
okay
I have a class one thing I find that
most people don't
basics that they don't have like my
drawing classes it can okay how do you
hold a pencil how do you sharpen that
question yeah but actually that's one
that I took out because I filtered it
out yeah so I started the whole class
with that yeah you must have gotten a
lot of people that signed up for that
class because they do I still do it's
called essentials right and it's doing
howdy materials mm-hmm I get people that
never heard of a chamois okay how do you
sharpen a pencil how do you hold a
pencil do value scales all of the basic
stuff you should know to start with or
at least be working on and so I go from
that and then I go right into the figure
drawing one two and by getting in fact
I'm working right now on developing a
course on landscape drawing okay and
this is for real Kupa for Phillip
Academy yeah okay and where can they go
to default to see this just the website
funny that you should ask now it just on
saw online just go to view Academy calm
often fling yeah and then actually you
can go there for my Saturday classes my
private classes and still teaching at
the animation guild when you go through
their classes my UCLA classes are it's a
master's program okay so that's that's
that so you have to have an
undergraduate degree in you have to go
through the university system for that
oh but I do
bitterly I get like I said I just forgot
a note I'm looking at this morning
somebody wants me to come to Japan oh if
it works out we go people asked well
will you come here I said ask me this is
sort of a it's been constant my whole
career is the one thing that when I was
a student
I actually quit six months before I
graduated okay so I'm not a great
example for parents okay but anyway the
reason why he's quit was that I didn't
feel like I was learning fast enough so
when I left I got studio and I would
just study every day just drawing and
painting that's what I did I this is
where part of the old master studying
compositions I would take books here oh
my God look at these things are totally
worn God it's not how not to treat a
book no but I would take every morning
and go out get a cup of coffee and sit
down and I would draw from the old
masters for the paintings and it's
studying analyzing competition I did
that for an hour or so every morning and
then I would start working on my own
paintings so this is what I did every
day literally Oh seven days a week
at night I would take and work to take
make enough money to live I would never
work more than 20 hours a week I drove a
cab I'd worked a ceramics factory
cleaning mold of the chief urine carrier
and a chemistry lab I did all kinds of
odd jobs
what part of being an artist do you
enjoy most figuring out the problems
figuring out the problems how to teach
composition okay
like composition then the teaching each
class has a dynamics of it and so I'm
always trying to find new ways or better
ways to communicate the ideas yeah I
have to agree with you my favorite part
of being an artist and a teacher is
learning yeah my favorite part of being
a teacher is learning because it forces
me to learn deeply that's the subject a
MTG CD I'm not much for bull when if
student asked you something if I don't
know what I say I don't know it I'll
find it out right yeah oh and also I put
my hand where my mouth is I demonstrate
I do it by I teach by doing but that is
I can't stand walk around a room with a
bunch of people drawing and I'm not you
get jealous horrible
I draw more than my students too you saw
my safe back there with oh yeah all the
sketchbooks I probably have a thousand
sketchbook yeah it's this huge safe
looks like yeah it's a big fire Sibylla
fire area here so I have all this stuff
and even here what I do with with the
drawings is like every month I taken to
have all my sketches I scan everything
then I put those drawings into
categories you scan all your sketchbooks
oh my god what happens I haven't gone
back and scared I don't know but
everything kurd me for the last yeah
maybe five years or so I've scanned
everything I think you actually kind of
covered this just now is can you
recommend a weekly schedule for a
studying regime and that's kind of what
you were saying every morning you wake
up you go get a book you study from the
master yeah and
in fact one of the one of the lessons in
my essentials class how do you study and
that's it
is you art is based on art I could show
you books of just artists copies of
other artists work and that's how they
study and I had one of my teachers for
surf Idol 'some peewee he was also a
half finish but he would say well go to
the library take out a big list the
things like for instance what what
points color tone line composition
whatever different elements and then
take and go into a library and pick out
a book where you like this just somebody
you like just their color you don't like
their drawing you don't like their
subject matter you don't like anything
else about it but you really like their
color okay for each thing on this list
then take and find somebody that
exemplifies that you like for that one
aspect and then copy their well then
know then what you do is you have a
stack of books of all these different
artists they're all different but they
all have something in them that you like
then that's actually you then
combination yeah you got all of these
elements that I'm constantly amazed by
hell the well I'm Elmer keeps telling
you to let your job okay but students
have very little understanding of art
history they don't know they don't know
it's tough and of course I didn't either
and I learn because I'm curious one name
leads you to the next the next Oh next
for the next to the next their neck and
pretty soon you're finding all kinds of
stuff but you didn't know
consistent who was like there was an
artist let me think you ok these are
artists yeah I had never heard of them
till they had a show at the Getty Cruz
is grassman great but one of the things
that really I really like about his
stuff it's look the whole look at how he
is rough is how you'd begin
that's for painting yeah and he was
really really nice he would to his
paintings would be really tread these
are all oh yes whoo that's nice okay he
influenced a little bit of Picasso there
yeah here's what I mentioned about
artists copies of other artists work
Peter Paul Rubens copying tissue it
looks identical wait which one's Rubens
see he added he added to it oh yeah he
changed yeah they change but he copied
the whole Sistine ceiling true I mean
right down to the nothing he was an
ambassador in Spain he copied several
hundred paintings all of the tissues so
literally art is based on art yeah okay
you've didn't forgot through all your
questions
yeah we did let's do the speed round
okay what do you like to do to warm up
draw okay let's get a quick sketch quick
sketch is there any problem using a
ruler or calipers and drawing or is it
better to just use your eye to measure
proportions now in fact I don't do very
much measuring at all you know measure
with your eye use your eye bands from
that was a thing Michelangelo said don't
measure use the eye now but they put it
this way there's eye hand coordination
my eye travels through the model at
about the same pace the
I'm taking and drawing and then
following through mm-hm
okay I also have to correct myself a lot
right yeah I can imagine
I will measure but I die basically you
measure with with the pencil like this
if I have to you have to if I have to
but I did this not really it's not I
don't start out that way first is the
feeling
first the gesture then I correct myself
got it
favorite color blue yeah was that random
did you just pick a color
no no blue is my actually is your yeah
yeah favorite drawing medium or painting
or any any kind of medium it could be
digital actually very large percent of
my drawing is done with a pen and wash
brush water brush in the pen that's
probably that's probably the biggest
thing I do I work with okay why do some
artists draw sketch before painting and
others paint Allah prema
it's good answer because it's all it's
all drawing it
sketch you're focusing on the
composition right it's the organization
of the whole thing if you're just going
to paint something what's in front of
you fine then you're just basically
copying with the review study a
composition Alla Prima yeah but then
it's drawing then you just doing any of
making a sketch on the canvas that's
right okay yeah right so it's a sketch
yeah first one is a sketch it maybe just
maybe spend more time on it and finish
it a little bit more it's it's whether
it's painting the right it's the gesture
the gesture is the soul of your drawing
a gesture is the composition of the
thing I've been drawing for years but I
still have trouble making bold decisive
strokes what do you think about this oh
just think if you're going downhill
skiing you can't back up that's good
what do you enjoy more the process or
the end product of your hard work the
process how much time should I spend
drawing from observation versus
imagination and what should I be aware
of so that I'm always learning and not
just copying the model oh that's a good
question
the be a free a percentage type thing if
you have difficulty with something then
you study it until it's not such a
problem like if you have difficulty with
values then you spend time until you get
your values squared away
and then no matter what it is as you're
doing your drawing if you find like oh I
have a horrible time drawing thumbs well
then stop and figure out and learn how
to draw funds all right so from
reference you say
yeah and whether it's drawing from mall
or reference looking at Anatomy doesn't
make any difference it what are your
goals so you've if you want to draw for
imagination you have to know if the
figure you have to know the figure okay
you learn the figure by drawing the
figure but analyzing the figure which
means that you're also analyzing anatomy
everything else so maybe draw from the
figure until you can draw from your
imagination until you know it well
enough know study the old masters to
analyze oh yeah so first if you can't
get an action doesn't make any
difference but that's one of the things
that bothers me about a lot of academic
painting is that they take a photograph
they work out a composition take a
photograph and then copy the photograph
and they still look like end up looking
like copied photograph you have to you
have to go past that you have to go past
it you're drawing from a photograph is
one of the most difficult things because
it's already developed it's a
two-dimensional imagery and you need to
take and be able to draw from a
photograph like you would from a model
and that that's right okay
yeah it's harder people think it's
easier but it's harder yeah I mean I I
always try to draw from life when I can
yeah as opposed to ground because it's
but you have to know more to draw from
photograph yeah as you are arranging the
model for a figure drawing what do you
look for position of the body limbs
lighting facial expressions so basically
I guess the question is what makes a
good pose and a good setup ah my general
attitude is I'll let the model as long
as it's got some kind of action to it
I'll let the model choose I don't take
and pose the model I figure they should
be able to draw anything and then it
creates me more interesting problems so
if it's a bad pose it's good because you
get to improve it on your drawing yeah
it's going to create it's going to
create situations that you don't like
what you're gonna have to deal with you
know it makes you learn more so I very
rarely mob pose the model and I will if
I do I'm looking for the movement okay
the something it doesn't adjust suppose
that'll lend itself to movement unless
it's specifically talking about
expressions and I will tell the model to
take expressions then we focus on that
but generally the only time I pose the
model really is if it's in a head
drawing class and then it's taking for
the angle of the head and I try to focus
on or you know three-quarters type thing
how do beginning artists work through
the growing pains of being in the same
classroom as more advanced artists great
get more people to learn from right have
you encountered many artists who have a
severe lack of self-confidence yes okay
good
did you ever doubt yourself and you were
starting out or any time in your career
yeah I first started teaching I was
petrified you know that I was going to
look like an idiot
is that up and third try and it's one of
the first things you have to learn is
well yeah as a teacher if you screw up
it's a learning situation you you make a
mistake you say you made a mistake the
student learns from seeing that I make
mistakes and I'm always making mistakes
it's just that I've developed - I'm on a
higher level of mistakes or I shouldn't
say miss not necessarily mistakes but it
never is really exactly what you
intended when you started right because
there's a point where everything takes
on a life of its own that you have to
take and deal with but the is first lack
of first of all the lack of confidence
is not put it's not respecting yourself
and that you should take and that nobody
is going to be exactly like you because
you are unique and that you should not
worry about what anybody else does it
just does not matter yeah and did you
test if what you do is the only thing
that matters that's a good one um so I
will say this is the last one actually
comes from Marshall Bandra
yeah Marshall he was a student of mine
yes yeah when you draw complete gestures
they come out proportionally close to
the finish is this purely from
experience or do you see checkpoints
that you don't actually draw so I think
we were talking about this and he says
that when he watches you do quick
sketches that they're so close to the
correct proportion already
that he he doesn't understand how you
can get it so close from a gesture okay
it's really I sort of mentioned this a
little bit is that there's a certain
level of eye coordination okay as I'm
drawing a gesture I'm focusing on how
one part relates to another so as I'm
drawing it I'm leading the eye to
understand it but at the same time I'm
experiencing it so the line is going
through to a certain flow that I don't
jump around
it's a continuity that I'm doing so
there's a pay its it literally as my
eyes going so far my pencil is going so
far and that's and actually as a student
I remember having exercises or the
teacher would have you cover up your pan
with a with another piece of paper and
draw not looking at what you're doing
you so you could not see your hand so
you have to imagine like you were
looking your hand movement this boy
you're looking at your reference right
yeah you could see your drawing but you
cannot see your hand so you were there
was a continuous flow of the line you
went through that's a good exercise
because then you can feel your hand
better yeah
and so that's but then the other part of
that is that I've been doing this
forever right and I will I will make a
calculated as I'm doing it I say oh yeah
for his pubic arched the halfway cut out
right and but it's all mileage yeah the
proportion yeah probably but I also have
a tendency to make legs too long I have
a tension I really and I tend to cut him
off I know I have I know I do that and
I'm always correcting myself well that's
it thanks for guys for watching thank
you mister Ville Pugh for being here and
for let
you come to your studio and thank you so
much for all the instruction and
continuing a tradition of the classical
training I think that what you're doing
is really what saves this kind of this
art so thank you so much for for passing
that on to us I really appreciate the
actually a great opportunity and it's
sort of like I said I'm really a
preacher for drawing so it should give
me a lot more preaching here so get it
out in the world yeah but it really is
an opportunity thank you somebody walked
oh my pleasure all right thanks guys if
you like this video share the wealth
tell your friends post it on your
favorite social network and click this
button here to subscribe to the proko
newsletter if you want to be updated
about new videos bye bye